Rethink Culture

[00:00:07.11 - 00:00:10.13] Good morning, good afternoon and good evening.
[00:00:10.19 - 00:00:14.19] Welcome to the Rethink Culture podcast, the podcast that shines a spotlight on
[00:00:14.19 - 00:00:20.14] business leaders who are rethinking workplace culture and creating intentional cultures.
[00:00:20.14 - 00:00:23.10] My name is Andreas Konstantinou and I'm your host.
[00:00:23.10 - 00:00:26.13] And I'm also the founder of Rethink Culture, a company that aims to help 1
[00:00:26.13 - 00:00:30.19] million businesses create a healthier, more fulfilling work culture.
[00:00:31.01 - 00:00:35.20] We just launched a new service, Culture Health Score, that turns your culture into a KPI,
[00:00:36.02 - 00:00:39.13] and you can learn more at rethinkculture.co.
[00:00:40.20 - 00:00:47.19] Today, I have the pleasure of welcoming Kerry Siggins, who's the CEO of StoneAge.
[00:00:47.19 - 00:00:53.16] StoneAge is a manufacturing company recognized as a top 100 company to work for.
[00:00:53.16 - 00:00:59.17] Kerry was also named EY Entrepreneur of the Year in 2023, only recently.
[00:00:59.19 - 00:01:05.13] And she's a member of YPO, and she's also the host of two podcasts, including
[00:01:05.13 - 00:01:13.01] the wildly popular podcast Reflect Forward and she's author of the Ownership Mindset
[00:01:13.01 - 00:01:19.10] book and she's also just beginning to write her second book which is On Finding
[00:01:19.10 - 00:01:22.08] Purpose and Meaning at Work.
[00:01:22.10 - 00:01:25.04] Very welcome to the Rethink Culture podcast, Kerry.
[00:01:25.04 - 00:01:28.04] Thank you, I’m so excited to be here.
[00:01:28.07 - 00:01:31.08] So tell us a little bit about you.
[00:01:32.11 - 00:01:35.20] Firstly, who is Kerry and who is StoneAge?
[00:01:35.20 - 00:01:36.14] So.
[00:01:36.23 - 00:01:38.19] First I'm a mom.
[00:01:38.19 - 00:01:44.13] I have an 11 year old son named Jack who is just the most remarkable human being I
[00:01:44.13 - 00:01:46.17] have ever had the opportunity to know.
[00:01:46.17 - 00:01:48.04] And I love being a mom.
[00:01:48.04 - 00:01:50.13] I didn't ever want to be a mom.
[00:01:50.13 - 00:01:56.02] I thought I was never gonna have children, but luckily I rethought that decision.
[00:01:56.13 - 00:02:00.10] And so I'm a much better leader because of it.
[00:02:00.10 - 00:02:05.16] And I live in Durango, Colorado, which is where I'm from.
[00:02:05.16 - 00:02:07.10] I grew up on the Western slope of Colorado.
[00:02:07.10 - 00:02:11.19] Durango is a rural town and I love it because I'm a big mountain biker and skier
[00:02:11.19 - 00:02:13.19] and trail runner.
[00:02:13.19 - 00:02:15.04] So I love being outside.
[00:02:15.04 - 00:02:18.16] In fact, I skied in spring skiing conditions yesterday.
[00:02:18.16 - 00:02:19.22] It was amazing.
[00:02:19.22 - 00:02:21.23] And then I'm a leader.
[00:02:21.23 - 00:02:23.19] I love leadership.
[00:02:23.19 - 00:02:25.10] I love impact.
[00:02:25.10 - 00:02:27.04] I love disruption.
[00:02:27.05 - 00:02:34.10] I love building companies and so I have this opportunity to lead and build this
[00:02:34.10 - 00:02:39.16] amazing company, StoneAge, which is an employee-owned company and it's where my
[00:02:39.16 - 00:02:40.17] passion lies.
[00:02:40.17 - 00:02:46.02] It's helping people be their very best so that we can grow together and really bring
[00:02:46.02 - 00:02:50.02] value to our customers, which helps the company grow itself.
[00:02:50.02 - 00:02:52.01] So that's a little bit about me.
[00:02:52.01 - 00:02:56.17] And StoneAge is a manufacturer of industrial cleaning equipment, water
[00:02:56.17 - 00:02:57.14] jetting equipment.
[00:02:57.14 - 00:03:01.10] So basically high tech squirt guns on steroids.
[00:03:01.16 - 00:03:08.13] So we build nozzles and robotic systems that uses high pressure water to clean
[00:03:08.13 - 00:03:13.05] industrial manufacturing facilities like refineries and petrochem plants, food
[00:03:13.05 - 00:03:16.20] processing plants, anywhere you'd use ultra high pressure water to clean.
[00:03:16.22 - 00:03:20.16] We also are very big into technology.
[00:03:20.16 - 00:03:25.23] We own an IoT product development company called Breadware.
[00:03:26.01 - 00:03:27.14] IoT is Internet of Things.
[00:03:27.14 - 00:03:33.16] It's building smart devices and they help industrial OEMs like StoneAge's clients
[00:03:33.16 - 00:03:40.10] and like StoneAge build smart solutions for industrial applications.
[00:03:40.10 - 00:03:41.20] That's a little bit about the company.
[00:03:41.20 - 00:03:43.22] We're 45 years old.
[00:03:43.22 - 00:03:51.05] So I took over in 2007 from the founders and led us through the transition to an
[00:03:51.05 - 00:03:53.16] ESOP, which is Employee Stock Ownership Plan.
[00:03:53.19 - 00:03:58.20] And now the founders are completely bought out of the company and we own it.
[00:03:58.20 - 00:04:01.04] So that's a little bit about StoneAge.
[00:04:01.07 - 00:04:07.19] So we'll get to the StoneAge culture, but before that, tell us a bit about you and
[00:04:07.19 - 00:04:11.22] how you, like where you grew up and what were some of your influences that led you
[00:04:11.22 - 00:04:16.04] to be an entrepreneur and care about building a solid culture?
[00:04:16.13 - 00:04:20.19] So I grew up in rural Colorado, small little town, which I spent my whole life
[00:04:20.19 - 00:04:23.07] trying to figure out how to get out of.
[00:04:23.19 - 00:04:27.13] Funny that life brings me back to home.
[00:04:27.19 - 00:04:35.19] But I really grew up loving to work, watching all of my family work really hard.
[00:04:35.19 - 00:04:41.13] My mother was a single mother and she worked three jobs to make ends meet.
[00:04:41.13 - 00:04:46.14] And she, and when I was 12, she decided that she wanted to go to college.
[00:04:46.14 - 00:04:51.02] She didn't have a college education because she had learned that her passion
[00:04:51.02 - 00:04:55.17] was teaching by volunteering in the classroom for my brother and me.
[00:04:55.17 - 00:05:01.05] And so she put herself through school, driving 60 miles each way to another town
[00:05:01.05 - 00:05:06.19] where there was a college and working to be able to pursue her dream.
[00:05:06.19 - 00:05:08.19] My grandfather was also an entrepreneur.
[00:05:08.19 - 00:05:15.10] He left retail, he was very high up in the JCPenney company in the 70s, but he wanted
[00:05:15.10 - 00:05:18.02] to own his own sporting goods store and move out west.
[00:05:18.02 - 00:05:23.01] And so he left the Midwest and moved to Colorado to follow his dream.
[00:05:23.01 - 00:05:28.13] And so he had three sporting goods stores across the western slope of Colorado.
[00:05:28.13 - 00:05:31.10] And I began working there when I was 11 years old.
[00:05:31.10 - 00:05:34.23] And so I was just surrounded by work.
[00:05:34.23 - 00:05:37.23] So work ethic is a really big part of
[00:05:37.23 - 00:05:41.01] of my value system.
[00:05:41.07 - 00:05:46.22] And so I think it comes from watching my mom work so hard to create a living for
[00:05:46.22 - 00:05:51.10] herself and follow her passion and being inspired by my grandfather's
[00:05:51.10 - 00:05:59.01] entrepreneurial journey and how he gave up a really cushy job to take this big risk
[00:05:59.01 - 00:06:02.19] and move his family of six to Colorado to follow his dream too.
[00:06:03.02 - 00:06:09.04] So was StoneAge your first entrepreneurial venture or was there something before that?
[00:06:09.04 - 00:06:10.13] No, it was StoneAge.
[00:06:11.16 - 00:06:14.16] I wasn't sure what I was meant to do.
[00:06:14.16 - 00:06:17.16] I was pretty lost through my teens and 20s.
[00:06:17.16 - 00:06:20.02] Not unheard of, right?
[00:06:20.02 - 00:06:22.20] We're all trying to figure out what we're supposed to do.
[00:06:22.22 - 00:06:28.13] And so I was trying to just drift along figuring out where I fit.
[00:06:28.16 - 00:06:30.13] But I always knew I was a leader.
[00:06:30.13 - 00:06:35.07] My mom actually said I came out of the womb being the CEO of the family.
[00:06:35.07 - 00:06:36.04] And so.
[00:06:36.04 - 00:06:41.05] I was naturally drawn to leadership positions and I always took on leadership
[00:06:41.05 - 00:06:46.08] roles, whether that was in collegiate sports or within my company.
[00:06:46.19 - 00:06:50.11] So leadership was something that was the thread through all of it.
[00:06:50.11 - 00:06:55.14] But honestly, I didn't know if I had any kinds of good enough ideas to start
[00:06:55.14 - 00:06:57.05] companies and what that meant.
[00:06:57.05 - 00:07:01.16] I didn't have that confidence in myself until I came to StoneAge.
[00:07:01.16 - 00:07:04.16] And so that's where I really began to
[00:07:04.16 - 00:07:07.02] learn that I truly was an entrepreneur.
[00:07:07.02 - 00:07:11.16] So, and then, what was the transition at StoneAge?
[00:07:11.16 - 00:07:16.22] Like, how did you take over the helm and when did culture become important?
[00:07:17.13 - 00:07:25.01] So I moved to Durango at the end of 2006 and my life was a complete mess and I came
[00:07:25.01 - 00:07:27.19] back home to rebuild my life.
[00:07:28.10 - 00:07:32.01] And I met with the founders, they were looking for a general manager.
[00:07:32.01 - 00:07:36.13] They had grown the company to where they really thought that they could take it.
[00:07:36.13 - 00:07:41.17] They were two engineers and they built this $10 million company and now they were
[00:07:41.17 - 00:07:42.22] ready to go do something different.
[00:07:42.22 - 00:07:46.07] They had done that over about 27 years.
[00:07:46.10 - 00:07:51.04] And so even though I was under qualified for the position, I decided that I was
[00:07:51.04 - 00:07:52.22] going to put my name in the hat.
[00:07:53.01 - 00:07:59.01] I had studied engineering, I had studied business, I had been working in
[00:07:59.01 - 00:08:00.19] manufacturing operations.
[00:08:00.19 - 00:08:05.05] So I thought, you know, I'm just gonna take a bet on myself and apply.
[00:08:05.05 - 00:08:09.04] And if I don't get the job, maybe it'll be my foot in the door for another position
[00:08:09.04 - 00:08:10.05] in the company.
[00:08:10.05 - 00:08:12.22] In Durango, there's not a lot of great jobs, so.
[00:08:12.22 - 00:08:18.05] I was like, I'm going to try and see if at least I can start working for the only
[00:08:18.05 - 00:08:22.01] real manufacturing company in Durango.
[00:08:22.13 - 00:08:26.22] And so I met with the founders and I thought there's no way they're going to hire me.
[00:08:26.22 - 00:08:30.19] But ultimately they decided to take a risk and they wanted something different with
[00:08:30.19 - 00:08:38.10] their company and they saw passion and drive and intelligence and potential.
[00:08:38.10 - 00:08:41.22] And so they said, all right, we're going to do this.
[00:08:42.01 - 00:08:44.19] So I started off as director of operations.
[00:08:44.19 - 00:08:47.11] A year and a half I moved into the general manager role,
[00:08:47.11 - 00:08:49.07] and a year and a half after that into the CEO role.
[00:08:49.07 - 00:08:56.16] So about three years after I started, I had been promoted through that kind of transition.
[00:08:57.16 - 00:09:03.22] And I always thought about culture because I worked in some really bad cultures.
[00:09:03.22 - 00:09:09.02] In fact, the company that I worked at before I came back home was really toxic.
[00:09:09.02 - 00:09:11.14] And that mixed with
[00:09:11.14 - 00:09:16.19] my mental health issues was really, really bad for me.
[00:09:16.19 - 00:09:21.13] And I went to some really dark places and I knew that I wanted to be part of a
[00:09:21.13 - 00:09:26.01] company that cared about culture and that I felt like I belonged in that culture.
[00:09:26.01 - 00:09:30.10] So it was very important to me, even though I didn't know how to really build a
[00:09:30.10 - 00:09:35.13] culture back then, I had just knew what I was hoping to be able to find.
[00:09:35.20 - 00:09:36.10] So.
[00:09:36.10 - 00:09:39.13] The journey started early, but I mean, I'm still figuring it out, right?
[00:09:39.13 - 00:09:41.07] It's always an evolution.
[00:09:41.07 - 00:09:45.07] Culture is always evolving and it ebbs and it flows.
[00:09:45.07 - 00:09:49.23] And so it's something that I'm really passionate about, but still continuously
[00:09:49.23 - 00:09:52.22] work on to make sure that we're a great place to work.
[00:09:53.04 - 00:09:59.13] What was one of the first things you decided to change and that was not an
[00:09:59.13 - 00:10:01.16] intuitive or an incremental change?
[00:10:01.16 - 00:10:02.23] What was a bold move?
[00:10:03.14 - 00:10:05.08] About myself or about the company?
[00:10:05.08 - 00:10:06.14] About the company.
[00:10:07.16 - 00:10:13.07] So there are a couple things.
[00:10:13.07 - 00:10:18.16] When I first started, the company was not organized very well.
[00:10:18.16 - 00:10:23.04] The founders are brilliant engineers and they're both very amiable.
[00:10:23.04 - 00:10:26.01] They did not like to deal with conflict.
[00:10:26.01 - 00:10:31.04] And so if a person wasn't performing, they wouldn't let that person go.
[00:10:31.04 - 00:10:36.08] And they would just say, okay, well, another person can come in and do these things.
[00:10:36.08 - 00:10:41.19] And so it was this really fragmented organization and kind of messy
[00:10:41.19 - 00:10:44.22] and not clear roles and responsibilities.
[00:10:44.23 - 00:10:52.01] And I had never, I had never reorganized a company, but I realized in
[00:10:52.01 - 00:10:54.01] that first six months, this is not working.
[00:10:54.01 - 00:10:57.13] We have people who are in key positions, who aren't performing.
[00:10:57.13 - 00:11:01.13] We have people who have disjointed roles, like this doesn't make sense.
[00:11:01.13 - 00:11:05.07] And so I had to come up with a whole reorg.
[00:11:05.07 - 00:11:09.05] And so I wouldn't say that it wasn't intuitive because I could see it wasn't
[00:11:09.05 - 00:11:12.02] working, but I definitely didn't know what I was doing.
[00:11:12.02 - 00:11:17.07] And so I really leaned on my fellow teammates.
[00:11:17.13 - 00:11:22.01] Even though I was their boss, they had been with the company much longer than me.
[00:11:22.01 - 00:11:23.16] They knew the industry.
[00:11:23.16 - 00:11:26.10] Many of them had many, many more years of experience.
[00:11:26.10 - 00:11:26.20] So...
[00:11:26.20 - 00:11:29.10] I just sat down, I partnered with them and said, what do you think?
[00:11:29.10 - 00:11:30.16] How should we solve this problem?
[00:11:30.16 - 00:11:32.19] How should we split up these roles?
[00:11:33.07 - 00:11:38.19] And so together we came up with a much better org structure and we made that
[00:11:38.19 - 00:11:40.13] change in the first six months I was there.
[00:11:40.13 - 00:11:45.11] So it was pretty disruptive to the team, but it got us on a foundation to really
[00:11:45.11 - 00:11:47.22] solve some of the problems that needed to be solved.
[00:11:48.01 - 00:11:50.11] And how did you...
[00:11:50.11 - 00:11:54.01] How and why did you decide to move to an employee-owned structure?
[00:11:54.19 - 00:12:02.07] So the company was actually employee-owned when I was there, but it was a homegrown
[00:12:02.07 - 00:12:05.22] program where employees could invest their own money in the company.
[00:12:05.22 - 00:12:08.01] So a skin in the game program.
[00:12:08.01 - 00:12:12.05] It wasn't truly a who owns this company, especially because the founders still
[00:12:12.05 - 00:12:14.19] owned the majority of it.
[00:12:14.19 - 00:12:20.16] When I came on board, employees had bought about 25 % of the company, but it was just dilutionary.
[00:12:20.16 - 00:12:22.16] The founders weren't actually looking to sell out.
[00:12:22.16 - 00:12:24.07] They were just looking to,
[00:12:24.07 - 00:12:30.01] a way to generate cash, to be honest, without having to go to the bank and a way
[00:12:30.01 - 00:12:35.08] to share with the employees the success that the company had had.
[00:12:36.04 - 00:12:37.07] So it was great.
[00:12:37.07 - 00:12:39.10] It was a really great program.
[00:12:39.13 - 00:12:44.19] But it was like an investment, not necessarily a true ownership structure.
[00:12:44.19 - 00:12:51.19] And in 2013, the founders are now in their mid-60s and both are looking to exit.
[00:12:51.19 - 00:12:54.07] you know, exit more and more out of the business.
[00:12:54.07 - 00:13:00.14] And I said, we have to do something that actually has a structure.
[00:13:00.14 - 00:13:03.04] If the two of you die, who owns this company?
[00:13:03.04 - 00:13:07.04] You know, a machinist who has been investing in the company for 20 years, he
[00:13:07.04 - 00:13:11.01] loves the feeling of ownership, but he doesn't really want to own the company and
[00:13:11.01 - 00:13:12.20] all of the responsibilities that come with it.
[00:13:12.20 - 00:13:14.16] We need a real structure.
[00:13:14.16 - 00:13:18.04] And so we debated, do we do a management buyout?
[00:13:18.04 - 00:13:19.23] Do we do an ESOP?
[00:13:19.23 - 00:13:21.10] What does this look like?
[00:13:21.10 - 00:13:24.23] And ultimately we decided to do an ESOP, which is an employee stock ownership
[00:13:24.23 - 00:13:30.16] program, where you create a trust, it buys the shares, and then you have a trustee
[00:13:30.16 - 00:13:35.01] who manages that trust, and then the board of directors really oversees everything.
[00:13:35.01 - 00:13:39.16] And so it really made a lot of sense to us because it gave us a mechanism to truly be
[00:13:39.16 - 00:13:44.19] able to buy out the founders and have this ownership structure without it actually
[00:13:44.19 - 00:13:48.17] falling on the largest shareholder who didn't really wanna, you know,
[00:13:48.17 - 00:13:51.07] the responsibility of owning a company.
[00:13:51.13 - 00:13:54.20] And so, and it allowed everybody to be able to participate in ownership instead
[00:13:54.20 - 00:13:59.13] of just those who had money or who were comfortable taking a risk investing in the company.
[00:13:59.13 - 00:14:00.20] So that's how we went through it.
[00:14:00.20 - 00:14:08.22] And so in 2015, on January 1st, we became an ESOP and we bought out all of our non
[00:14:08.22 - 00:14:13.11] -founder employee shareholders and our founders over the next seven years and
[00:14:13.11 - 00:14:16.13] became 100 % ESOP in 2022.
[00:14:16.13 - 00:14:21.10] And what did this mean over time for the people working at StoneAge?
[00:14:21.11 - 00:14:30.01] What changes did you see as a result of that legal, you know, shared change?
[00:14:30.07 - 00:14:33.13] Yeah, it's really been, it's really been fantastic.
[00:14:33.13 - 00:14:37.07] But it's like we talked about earlier, it's been an evolution.
[00:14:37.07 - 00:14:41.19] When we had a skin in the game program, it was very real, right?
[00:14:41.19 - 00:14:45.04] People are putting their own money into the company and they're getting
[00:14:45.04 - 00:14:48.16] distributions and they're seeing that stock price increase.
[00:14:49.01 - 00:14:53.14] And so, you know, it already had created this sense of kind of
[00:14:53.14 - 00:14:56.08] responsibility of like, okay, you know,
[00:14:56.08 - 00:14:57.16] Are we really spending money on this?
[00:14:57.16 - 00:14:58.19] Are we going to hire this person?
[00:14:58.19 - 00:15:01.16] We need to hire this person because they were owners.
[00:15:01.16 - 00:15:08.13] When we moved to the ESOP, it's now basically a retired, a managed retirement
[00:15:08.13 - 00:15:13.11] benefit, which we do not talk about it as a retirement benefit, but that's
[00:15:13.11 - 00:15:15.10] ultimately how it's managed.
[00:15:15.22 - 00:15:19.05] And it didn't have that same feel.
[00:15:19.05 - 00:15:23.05] And so people kind of lost to the, in those early years, that feeling of what
[00:15:23.05 - 00:15:24.13] does this mean?
[00:15:24.13 - 00:15:30.05] And so we had to be really intentional about building out what it means to be an
[00:15:30.05 - 00:15:33.01] owner in an ESOP. And how it actually happened,
[00:15:33.01 - 00:15:37.16] this intentional building of our culture and helping people think and act
[00:15:37.16 - 00:15:42.22] like owners came from an employee who we were letting go because he was a toxic
[00:15:42.22 - 00:15:43.13] high performer.
[00:15:43.13 - 00:15:47.04] You know, the person who's really good at their job, but is a jerk to work with.
[00:15:47.07 - 00:15:50.19] And when we were letting him go, we talked about not being a great teammate.
[00:15:50.19 - 00:15:54.07] And he said, well, where does it say be a great teammate in my job description?
[00:15:54.07 - 00:15:57.17] Like I was doing everything in my job description well.
[00:15:57.19 - 00:16:02.22] And that's when I realized that, it was going, it was this unspoken thing,
[00:16:02.22 - 00:16:03.05] right?
[00:16:03.05 - 00:16:06.13] Like you and I talked about in the pre-show, it's a small C, like what are the
[00:16:06.13 - 00:16:09.08] behaviors people are exhibiting within the culture?
[00:16:09.08 - 00:16:12.14] And I realized we needed this to be really intentional.
[00:16:12.14 - 00:16:16.17] So we went out and built the own it mindset, which is our values instead of behaviors.
[00:16:16.17 - 00:16:21.10] And that's where things transformed because people could clearly understand
[00:16:21.10 - 00:16:23.07] this is how I'm going to be successful.
[00:16:23.07 - 00:16:24.16] This is what I'm responsible for.
[00:16:24.16 - 00:16:26.22] This is what I'm not responsible for.
[00:16:26.22 - 00:16:28.16] And people really leaned into it.
[00:16:28.16 - 00:16:32.20] And that's why we win awards every year for being a top company to work for is
[00:16:32.20 - 00:16:36.07] that our employees really do own it.
[00:16:36.07 - 00:16:40.07] And there are tremendous benefits that come along with that.
[00:16:40.07 - 00:16:47.01] When people feel like they have control over their work and that they matter to the company.
[00:16:47.07 - 00:16:51.22] So those are some of the kind of the high level things that I've seen since we've done it.
[00:16:51.22 - 00:16:58.01] So what's the story of employee ownership or ownership mindset?
[00:16:58.01 - 00:17:08.08] How do you see examples of people who feel and act like owners and take care of the
[00:17:08.08 - 00:17:11.14] business, you know, when you take care of them?
[00:17:11.14 - 00:17:15.02] Yeah, I see it every day in small and big ways.
[00:17:15.07 - 00:17:21.07] A big way that we saw it is in 2020, we had a ransomware attack.
[00:17:21.07 - 00:17:25.01] So all of our IT systems were completely shut down.
[00:17:25.01 - 00:17:33.04] And once we figured out that we had been hacked and I called in 25 of my top, like
[00:17:33.04 - 00:17:37.04] just rock star employees, people who had been with the company for a long time.
[00:17:37.04 - 00:17:40.14] people who understood technology, people who could build databases.
[00:17:40.17 - 00:17:46.13] And I said to them, the 25 of you have to figure out how to run our business so our
[00:17:46.13 - 00:17:48.04] customers don't feel a thing.
[00:17:48.13 - 00:17:54.07] I'm gonna work with our attorneys and the cybersecurity teams and the forensics team
[00:17:54.07 - 00:17:55.19] to figure out what happened.
[00:17:55.19 - 00:17:59.08] You guys come up with a plan so that our customers don't feel a thing.
[00:17:59.08 - 00:18:00.13] And they did it.
[00:18:00.13 - 00:18:06.07] And it took us four weeks to be able to get our business back up and running.
[00:18:06.07 - 00:18:10.04] And we shipped all but four orders manually.
[00:18:11.08 - 00:18:17.19] And it was the most remarkable example of teamwork that I've ever seen.
[00:18:17.19 - 00:18:24.07] People whose jobs were not in order fulfillment or customer service, standing
[00:18:24.07 - 00:18:28.20] side by side with their fellow employee owners, making sure
[00:18:28.20 - 00:18:33.02] that our customers got what they needed because they relied on us and they were
[00:18:33.02 - 00:18:35.08] going into what we call turnaround season, right?
[00:18:35.08 - 00:18:37.17] So when they do all their work, they needed us.
[00:18:37.17 - 00:18:42.02] And they also all understood that if the company didn't bounce back from this, this
[00:18:42.02 - 00:18:45.04] was, this is their jobs, their livelihood.
[00:18:45.08 - 00:18:51.13] And they did such a remarkable job to not miss any order but four,
[00:18:51.13 - 00:18:55.16] and to do it during one of the biggest, I mean, we were so busy.
[00:18:55.16 - 00:18:59.08] We had our biggest shipping week in our history at that time.
[00:18:59.08 - 00:19:04.04] And it made me emotional walking around and seeing the camaraderie and seeing the
[00:19:04.04 - 00:19:08.13] iterative problem solving as we worked out the bugs to really create this process
[00:19:08.13 - 00:19:15.02] that we could track and ultimately be able to put back into the system when we came
[00:19:15.02 - 00:19:16.10] back up and running.
[00:19:16.13 - 00:19:20.17] It was remarkable and I truly do not believe that we would have gotten through
[00:19:20.17 - 00:19:24.22] that as smoothly as we would have if people didn't feel like they owned it.
[00:19:25.01 - 00:19:33.10] So if you were to help another company in creating and instilling ownership mindset,
[00:19:34.08 - 00:19:36.02] what's the pathway?
[00:19:36.02 - 00:19:42.20] What are the key points that you would advise them to take?
[00:19:43.01 - 00:19:47.14] Sure, so the first is you have to have a vision of what you want to create, right?
[00:19:47.14 - 00:19:49.04] You have to have your own it mindset.
[00:19:49.04 - 00:19:50.13] What are you trying to create?
[00:19:50.13 - 00:19:54.23] You have to have something that employees can anchor themselves to and that you can
[00:19:54.23 - 00:19:56.10] create accountability there.
[00:19:56.10 - 00:20:03.01] It was hard for us to create that accountability on our unspoken values, so to speak.
[00:20:03.04 - 00:20:08.01] And so creating that vision of this is the kind of company we want to be, this is the
[00:20:08.01 - 00:20:09.19] type of culture that we want.
[00:20:09.19 - 00:20:14.04] to have, and this is what success looks like in it for you as an individual, for
[00:20:14.04 - 00:20:18.01] the team, and then ultimately for the company for the bigger impact and beyond.
[00:20:18.01 - 00:20:19.05] That's really important.
[00:20:19.05 - 00:20:25.04] So have a clear vision and clearly define what it is you're looking for, looking to
[00:20:25.04 - 00:20:27.23] build within this ownership culture that you're creating.
[00:20:27.23 - 00:20:32.16] And on the vision, does it have to be a shared vision or can it be one that the
[00:20:32.16 - 00:20:34.22] CEO comes with and announces?
[00:20:34.22 - 00:20:36.02] What's your view?
[00:20:37.11 - 00:20:42.04] I am a big believer that a shared vision is always more effective because it's easier
[00:20:42.04 - 00:20:45.23] to get buy-in when people are creating it together.
[00:20:45.23 - 00:20:49.10] But not all companies are in a position to do that.
[00:20:49.10 - 00:20:50.14] It depends on your size.
[00:20:50.14 - 00:20:53.19] It depends on the state of your culture right now.
[00:20:54.01 - 00:21:00.07] And so it's really important that the CEO is bought into it and has that clear vision.
[00:21:00.07 - 00:21:05.04] But I think it's much better to iterate and create
[00:21:05.04 - 00:21:10.11] that shared sense of accountability and ownership by allowing other people to be
[00:21:10.11 - 00:21:11.22] part of that.
[00:21:12.05 - 00:21:13.20] I have a very clear vision.
[00:21:13.20 - 00:21:18.05] Like our vision is to create a thousand millionaires through employee ownership.
[00:21:18.16 - 00:21:20.07] That's a big goal.
[00:21:20.07 - 00:21:25.16] And so once I set that out, now the team can really work on what does that mean and
[00:21:25.16 - 00:21:26.17] how do we hit that?
[00:21:26.17 - 00:21:31.14] And it's very inspiring for people to be thinking about really changing the
[00:21:31.14 - 00:21:34.07] narrative of how capitalism works for people.
[00:21:34.07 - 00:21:34.19] So.
[00:21:34.19 - 00:21:36.10] I think it's a combination.
[00:21:36.10 - 00:21:43.01] And your vision does not relate to the impact of your products, but the impact of
[00:21:43.01 - 00:21:45.08] your company to your employees, right?
[00:21:45.08 - 00:21:48.02] So it's like unusual in that sense.
[00:21:48.02 - 00:21:48.19] It is.
[00:21:48.19 - 00:21:51.04] And we have a vision from a product side too.
[00:21:51.04 - 00:21:55.20] Don't get me wrong, but because we're employee owned, if our employees are
[00:21:55.20 - 00:21:58.22] successful, that means our customers are successful, right?
[00:21:58.22 - 00:22:01.10] That means that we're growing and we're adding value.
[00:22:01.10 - 00:22:08.13] And so, so yeah, it's definitely something that's bigger than
[00:22:08.13 - 00:22:11.19] just our products and the services that we provide.
[00:22:11.19 - 00:22:16.22] It really is being part of changing something on a much more impactful level.
[00:22:17.05 - 00:22:22.10] From a product side, we have a vision as well because that's important too for the
[00:22:22.10 - 00:22:24.10] day-to-day work that we do.
[00:22:24.16 - 00:22:31.08] But yeah, if I wouldn't have set that vision of, hey, we are here to create real
[00:22:31.08 - 00:22:38.01] value, real value, meaningful value for all of our employee owners, I don't know
[00:22:38.01 - 00:22:40.22] that that's the vision that we would have come up with, right?
[00:22:40.22 - 00:22:42.11] So I think that's why it takes both.
[00:22:42.11 - 00:22:43.17] You need to be...
[00:22:43.17 - 00:22:48.16] have a CEO who has a strong vision for the future, and then you have to work with
[00:22:48.16 - 00:22:54.13] your team to create it so it is shared and they have input and buy-in together.
[00:22:54.13 - 00:23:00.04] So I think it's really hard to sit down and just say, okay, what's our shared
[00:23:00.04 - 00:23:04.14] vision without the CEO or the founder, the leader of the company knowing where they
[00:23:04.14 - 00:23:05.05] want to go, right?
[00:23:05.05 - 00:23:07.07] People are like, okay, where are we going?
[00:23:07.07 - 00:23:08.22] Now I want to help us get there.
[00:23:08.22 - 00:23:12.04] I think that's the most effective way to do it.
[00:23:12.04 - 00:23:17.14] Doing it in a vacuum is really tough, but also not coming to the table as a leader
[00:23:17.14 - 00:23:21.16] and not saying this is where we're gonna go and why.
[00:23:21.16 - 00:23:26.04] I also think that that makes people feel adrift as well.
[00:23:26.04 - 00:23:30.02] And so once you have a vision, what's the next step to establish ownership mindset?
[00:23:30.13 - 00:23:32.20] You have to role model the ownership mindset.
[00:23:32.22 - 00:23:34.13] And I think that's the most important thing.
[00:23:34.13 - 00:23:38.16] I think a lot of leaders want their team to exhibit owning it.
[00:23:38.16 - 00:23:42.22] But I think that you have to take a real hard look at yourself and ask if you are
[00:23:42.22 - 00:23:44.07] doing the same thing.
[00:23:44.07 - 00:23:46.19] I live and breathe our values.
[00:23:46.19 - 00:23:50.04] Like there's no better evangelist within the company
[00:23:50.04 - 00:23:51.22] for the own it mindset than me.
[00:23:51.22 - 00:23:54.22] And I think every leader has to take that responsibility.
[00:23:54.22 - 00:24:00.16] If you're asking your employees to change, to do something, to care, then you have to
[00:24:00.16 - 00:24:04.08] show them that this is the way and this is why it's important.
[00:24:04.10 - 00:24:06.05] So role modeling is the second step.
[00:24:06.05 - 00:24:11.22] You gotta have a really deep conversation with yourself and say, am I willing to
[00:24:11.22 - 00:24:14.17] live these values that we said are important?
[00:24:14.17 - 00:24:18.13] Am I willing to do everything in my power to create
[00:24:18.13 - 00:24:21.22] accountability and success and all of these different things within the
[00:24:21.22 - 00:24:25.01] organization because if you don't as a leader, you can wish it to be true, but it
[00:24:25.01 - 00:24:26.08] doesn't mean that it's going to.
[00:24:26.08 - 00:24:33.10] And so vision and then role modeling is there something else?
[00:24:33.10 - 00:24:38.20] Yes, then the next step is, so once you, okay, this is the vision, this is why,
[00:24:38.20 - 00:24:43.02] here's how we're going to lead this, then you have to start working with your
[00:24:43.02 - 00:24:44.23] employees and building that trust.
[00:24:44.23 - 00:24:48.10] The foundation for all of this starts with trust.
[00:24:48.10 - 00:24:52.04] And a lot of employees don't trust leadership, a lot of leadership doesn't
[00:24:52.04 - 00:24:57.05] trust their employees, and you cannot inspire ownership thinking if you don't have trust.
[00:24:57.05 - 00:24:57.16] So.
[00:24:57.16 - 00:25:01.16] You know, that means that you have to take the time to get to know people and to
[00:25:01.16 - 00:25:03.08] understand their hopes and their dreams.
[00:25:03.08 - 00:25:05.07] And that's the hard part of culture, right?
[00:25:05.07 - 00:25:07.16] That's the part that takes a lot of time.
[00:25:07.16 - 00:25:12.01] You can talk about all these things, but if you truly don't get to know your
[00:25:12.01 - 00:25:17.11] employees and to start to build that trust, then you can't go make all of the
[00:25:17.11 - 00:25:19.01] other changes that you want.
[00:25:19.01 - 00:25:22.23] So what we did at StoneAge is like, that can't be all me, right?
[00:25:22.23 - 00:25:24.10] That's not scalable.
[00:25:24.10 - 00:25:28.17] So we really had to teach all of our managers how to build these trust-based
[00:25:28.17 - 00:25:31.07] relationships within the organization.
[00:25:31.16 - 00:25:35.02] And that was the most important thing that we did.
[00:25:35.02 - 00:25:38.23] Like we couldn't go and change anything until everybody who was in management
[00:25:38.23 - 00:25:40.01] bought into it.
[00:25:40.01 - 00:25:45.16] So we created this Own It training program that taught people how to have difficult
[00:25:45.16 - 00:25:50.20] conversations, how to give feedback, how to deal with mental health issues in the
[00:25:50.20 - 00:25:54.10] workplace, how to give recognition and praise.
[00:25:54.10 - 00:25:58.19] How to have weekly one-on-ones with every employee, how to give effective
[00:25:58.19 - 00:26:03.08] performance review, have performance conversations.
[00:26:03.08 - 00:26:07.20] We built a whole training program around that really aimed at teaching managers how
[00:26:07.20 - 00:26:11.17] to build those relationships with employees to say, I care about you.
[00:26:11.17 - 00:26:14.16] So then that way that they could build that trust.
[00:26:14.20 - 00:26:19.16] And that's where I think a lot of people fall down because that takes a lot of work.
[00:26:21.05 - 00:26:22.22] A lot of work.
[00:26:22.22 - 00:26:27.10] And Kerry, I want to come back to culture, but...
[00:26:27.10 - 00:26:33.16] So we get to know you a little better, if we can digress into learning a little bit
[00:26:33.16 - 00:26:34.16] about Kerry.
[00:26:34.16 - 00:26:39.13] So we talked about this before starting the recording.
[00:26:40.04 - 00:26:44.07] What are two truths and one lie about you in no particular order?
[00:26:44.17 - 00:26:45.13] Sure.
[00:26:45.13 - 00:26:45.20] Okay.
[00:26:45.20 - 00:26:47.07] So two truths and one lie.
[00:26:47.07 - 00:26:50.14] I survived an accidental overdose.
[00:26:50.19 - 00:26:56.07] I debated between engineering school and journalism school before going to college.
[00:26:56.07 - 00:27:00.04] And I tried out to be a professional softball player.
[00:27:04.04 - 00:27:07.04] They're all fairly believable.
[00:27:07.04 - 00:27:10.11] We'll get to them at the end.
[00:27:15.07 - 00:27:18.22] Something that stood out when you introduced yourself at the beginning is
[00:27:18.22 - 00:27:27.10] how you always felt you were born to be a leader and you know you were the CEO of
[00:27:27.10 - 00:27:32.01] your household as a child so to speak.
[00:27:32.11 - 00:27:36.04] What's your leadership style and also...
[00:27:36.04 - 00:27:41.22] If we look at female versus male leadership styles, what do you think...
[00:27:41.22 - 00:27:48.04] What characteristic do you think makes you a good leader?
[00:27:50.02 - 00:27:54.10] I think the characteristic that, I don't know if there's just one.
[00:27:56.04 - 00:28:03.19] I think leaders, the very best leaders understand that their job is to unleash
[00:28:03.19 - 00:28:07.19] the potential in all of their employees.
[00:28:08.22 - 00:28:15.07] And so I think that's what makes me a leader that people wanna work for is that
[00:28:15.07 - 00:28:24.13] you're going to be on this journey to find success both in life and in your career.
[00:28:24.13 - 00:28:27.04] And I'm really committed to doing that.
[00:28:27.04 - 00:28:29.10] And that doesn't always mean that it's easy, right?
[00:28:29.10 - 00:28:35.10] There's going to be hard conversations and I've had to demote people on their path to greatness.
[00:28:35.10 - 00:28:39.07] And you've had to let people go on their path to greatness, but it is all through
[00:28:39.07 - 00:28:44.13] this lens of how do I help you be the very best person you can be so that you can
[00:28:44.13 - 00:28:46.04] show up in life wholly
[00:28:46.08 - 00:28:47.16] and fully.
[00:28:47.16 - 00:28:53.20] So I think that's probably the number one leadership trait that people like.
[00:28:53.20 - 00:28:56.19] Not everybody likes it because sometimes it's uncomfortable and I push people
[00:28:56.19 - 00:29:02.16] really hard to think about what they want with their lives and stretch themselves.
[00:29:02.16 - 00:29:08.20] But yeah, I think that's how I would define my top characteristic.
[00:29:09.11 - 00:29:16.07] Where do you stand on radical candor and this divide between tough love and compassion?
[00:29:16.17 - 00:29:18.13] I'm a huge fan of radical candor.
[00:29:18.13 - 00:29:21.16] I teach my own version of radical candor.
[00:29:21.19 - 00:29:26.22] I think it's such a great model to be able to frame this idea of I care enough about
[00:29:26.22 - 00:29:28.19] you to have this conversation.
[00:29:29.04 - 00:29:35.01] And so I'm a big believer in direct feedback, but direct doesn't mean that you
[00:29:35.01 - 00:29:36.10] have to be mean about it.
[00:29:36.10 - 00:29:41.22] You can say this, like this is going to be hard to hear, but we need to have a really
[00:29:41.22 - 00:29:43.01] direct conversation about this.
[00:29:43.01 - 00:29:46.01] And I'm telling you this because I really do care about you,
[00:29:46.01 - 00:29:48.22] and then have that feedback.
[00:29:49.13 - 00:29:54.04] And so, yeah, I use that model all the time.
[00:29:54.04 - 00:29:56.19] I don't particularly enjoy giving feedback.
[00:29:56.19 - 00:30:01.13] My personality is one that I want people to like me and certainly when you're
[00:30:01.13 - 00:30:05.10] delivering tough feedback, especially if it's, you know, when you're having to let
[00:30:05.10 - 00:30:07.02] somebody go, right?
[00:30:07.02 - 00:30:08.07] It can make people mad.
[00:30:08.07 - 00:30:09.16] It makes people not like you.
[00:30:09.16 - 00:30:14.05] And so it's not like I relish in giving feedback, but...
[00:30:14.05 - 00:30:18.19] I've spent so much time practicing giving feedback and doing it in a way that makes
[00:30:18.19 - 00:30:21.10] people feel supported and cared about.
[00:30:21.10 - 00:30:26.19] And like, they're not a failure that I feel like I do it really well now.
[00:30:26.19 - 00:30:32.10] But I think that it's a really important, it's a really important leadership trait
[00:30:32.10 - 00:30:33.04] to have to have.
[00:30:33.04 - 00:30:38.07] You have to be able to have direct, give people direct feedback, but you don't have
[00:30:38.07 - 00:30:38.19] to be a jerk.
[00:30:38.19 - 00:30:42.11] You can do it in a way that people know that they're cared about.
[00:30:42.11 - 00:30:47.08] And so for those that don't know about radical candor, it's two elements, right?
[00:30:47.08 - 00:30:54.22] Which is direct feedback and honest feedback and then showing you care and
[00:30:54.22 - 00:31:02.16] convincing the other person that you care, not just paying lip service, that it's all
[00:31:02.16 - 00:31:10.01] well-intended and you really care for that person.
[00:31:10.07 - 00:31:15.02] And just to make a point on that, I think that that goes back to the two points that
[00:31:15.02 - 00:31:20.04] I had made in this journey to create ownership thinking within your culture.
[00:31:20.05 - 00:31:21.10] Role modeling,
[00:31:21.19 - 00:31:27.13] and you've got to really be able to role model that you do care.
[00:31:27.13 - 00:31:30.22] And that feedback is something that's important.
[00:31:30.23 - 00:31:34.07] And then the second piece comes in with that trust.
[00:31:34.07 - 00:31:39.13] And so it's a lot easier to give impactful feedback
[00:31:39.13 - 00:31:45.22] and have people take action with it, even if it is hard to hear when they know that
[00:31:45.22 - 00:31:48.10] there's that trust in that relationship.
[00:31:48.17 - 00:31:53.07] So again, it goes back to those two foundational things of are you role
[00:31:53.07 - 00:31:57.17] modeling, effective leadership, caring leadership, and are you building those
[00:31:57.17 - 00:32:05.13] trusting relationships that make it a lot safer to receive feedback when needed.
[00:32:05.20 - 00:32:10.11] How do you build trust and trusting relationships?
[00:32:10.11 - 00:32:13.22] Like, of course, you can spend time with a person, you can have lunch or dinner
[00:32:13.22 - 00:32:18.17] together, you can have honest conversations with each other, but if you
[00:32:18.17 - 00:32:25.22] want to build trust in a team and do that over a short period of time, let's say
[00:32:25.22 - 00:32:28.14] weeks rather than months or years, how do you do that?
[00:32:28.22 - 00:32:31.01] So you set the stage, right?
[00:32:31.01 - 00:32:33.08] But these are what the expectations are.
[00:32:33.08 - 00:32:38.04] We wanna have a team that is, I say high performing and high functioning.
[00:32:38.04 - 00:32:41.16] You can have a high performing team that's getting stuff done, but isn't high
[00:32:41.16 - 00:32:44.10] functioning, like working together well.
[00:32:44.10 - 00:32:49.13] So we create operating principles for our teams.
[00:32:49.13 - 00:32:51.19] So this is how we communicate.
[00:32:51.19 - 00:32:53.08] These are the things we're responsible for.
[00:32:53.08 - 00:32:55.04] Here's how we work through problems.
[00:32:55.04 - 00:32:59.07] So really clearly defining what those expectations are so people understand, you
[00:32:59.07 - 00:33:01.07] know, this is the culture of this team.
[00:33:01.07 - 00:33:06.14] So that helps because if otherwise people are trying to navigate the dynamics and
[00:33:06.14 - 00:33:11.04] not really understanding it, then it can leave room for conflict and storytelling
[00:33:11.04 - 00:33:12.19] and all of those things.
[00:33:13.08 - 00:33:20.01] Transparency is another key attribute that you have to have as a leader.
[00:33:20.01 - 00:33:23.13] I tell my team, I'm gonna always tell you the truth.
[00:33:23.13 - 00:33:27.04] I'm always gonna tell you everything that I possibly can and if I can't tell you
[00:33:27.04 - 00:33:31.22] something, then I will tell you, I can't tell you and this is why, but that's pretty rare.
[00:33:31.22 - 00:33:37.10] And so there needs to be transparency in decision making processes, transparency in
[00:33:37.10 - 00:33:41.16] communication, sharing the why, that vision is really important, this is why
[00:33:41.16 - 00:33:45.04] we're doing this, this is why it's important and here's how it benefits you
[00:33:45.04 - 00:33:47.13] as an individual and as a team.
[00:33:47.13 - 00:33:50.13] That transparency is really important.
[00:33:50.13 - 00:33:53.07] If people know that you're going to be honest with them, I think they're more
[00:33:53.07 - 00:33:54.20] likely to lean in.
[00:33:54.20 - 00:34:00.04] So I think that's how you do it fast is by being transparent.
[00:34:00.17 - 00:34:05.19] To add to that, a couple of tools I've seen being used very effectively.
[00:34:05.20 - 00:34:13.13] One is doing a strength exercise, such as Gallup's CliftonStrengths.
[00:34:13.13 - 00:34:19.01] And there's lots of them, but what Gallup does is they give you a list of 34
[00:34:19.01 - 00:34:25.07] strengths per person, and they look at what are your strongest characteristics,
[00:34:25.07 - 00:34:28.20] but also your weakest ones, so your lowest strengths.
[00:34:28.22 - 00:34:34.05] And then you have a discussion about what is each other's strengths but also their
[00:34:34.05 - 00:34:35.17] lowest strengths, if you like.
[00:34:35.17 - 00:34:41.04] So this is the areas where you don't shine and you don't do it intentionally but this
[00:34:41.04 - 00:34:42.13] is who you are.
[00:34:42.19 - 00:34:51.22] And it's in a sense an admission of not character flaws but weak areas or less
[00:34:51.22 - 00:34:53.16] strengths by each one.
[00:34:53.16 - 00:34:56.19] And then you have eureka moments like, oh...
[00:34:56.19 - 00:35:00.22] You know, you don't have, let's say, you're not strong on empathy, which is
[00:35:00.22 - 00:35:11.04] why, like, you were a bit aloof or, like, you were too abrupt the other day when you
[00:35:11.04 - 00:35:11.16] told me this.
[00:35:11.16 - 00:35:15.01] Now I understand, there's a reason behind that.
[00:35:15.01 - 00:35:20.22] And socializing each other's weakness, I think, is a way to establish trust.
[00:35:20.22 - 00:35:22.22] I totally agree with you.
[00:35:22.22 - 00:35:24.04] And another one...
[00:35:24.04 - 00:35:28.04] Another one is something we do in Entrepreneurs’ Organization, I'm sure you
[00:35:28.04 - 00:35:31.14] also do in YPO, is lifelines.
[00:35:31.16 - 00:35:36.19] And it does require a prior relationship, but you go through, for example, the two
[00:35:36.19 - 00:35:42.14] lows, or two highest highs and two lowest lows in everyone's life in a small team,
[00:35:42.14 - 00:35:46.17] whether it's like five or six or eight people.
[00:35:46.17 - 00:35:51.01] And that creates an instant connection.
[00:35:52.20 - 00:36:01.20] And I think, you know, we talk about all sorts of ways to create connection and
[00:36:01.20 - 00:36:03.13] trust by...
[00:36:03.13 - 00:36:08.13] If you start from vulnerability-based trust, which is the school of Patrick
[00:36:08.13 - 00:36:14.01] Lencioni and Brené Brown, then I think these tools are really kind of power tools
[00:36:14.01 - 00:36:15.05] in my experience.
[00:36:15.05 - 00:36:16.05] Yeah, I totally agree.
[00:36:16.05 - 00:36:17.13] We, um, we do a lot.
[00:36:17.13 - 00:36:19.17] We actually have a life coach who works with us.
[00:36:19.17 - 00:36:24.07] Um, and we, she uses the Enneagram, which I love because it's all about
[00:36:24.07 - 00:36:25.11] understanding your triggers.
[00:36:25.11 - 00:36:32.14] And so we put 12 people through each year, through this intense coaching program.
[00:36:32.14 - 00:36:36.02] And one of the things that we've just started implementing, we use TTI DISC
[00:36:36.02 - 00:36:37.22] profiles, as well.
[00:36:37.22 - 00:36:43.07] But we just started implementing Patrick Lencioni's new, the six geniuses
[00:36:43.07 - 00:36:44.05] of work.
[00:36:44.10 - 00:36:47.04] And I absolutely love it.
[00:36:47.04 - 00:36:47.17] I love it.
[00:36:47.17 - 00:36:48.02] I love it.
[00:36:48.02 - 00:36:53.10] I love it because it goes through how work gets done and where we need the six areas
[00:36:53.10 - 00:36:57.16] and then where we show up in our top two, then kind of the things that we're
[00:36:57.16 - 00:37:00.17] competent at and then the things that we, you know, that we really
[00:37:00.17 - 00:37:01.19] dislike doing.
[00:37:01.19 - 00:37:06.04] And that's been a really big game changer because, people it's, it doesn't put
[00:37:06.04 - 00:37:10.10] any of this, like, Oh, like the TTI DISC profile, like, you know, you can read it
[00:37:10.10 - 00:37:12.10] and feel like really bad about yourself.
[00:37:12.10 - 00:37:16.07] And so, you know, there's, there's lots of good things that can come from it,
[00:37:16.07 - 00:37:20.05] but if you don't have a person there coaching you through it, it can be tough.
[00:37:20.05 - 00:37:24.22] Whereas the six geniuses of work, like there is no bad, like there is, it's just
[00:37:24.22 - 00:37:30.10] like, you know, are you a wonder or are you a galvanizer or are you a, you know, enabler?
[00:37:30.10 - 00:37:34.22] And so anyway, if you haven't looked at that one, I love it.
[00:37:34.22 - 00:37:39.04] I actually just sent two of my HR people to become facilitators of it because we
[00:37:39.04 - 00:37:41.11] want to work that into the whole organization.
[00:37:42.14 - 00:37:43.16] Yeah, that's great.
[00:37:43.16 - 00:37:51.19] I've heard of that, I've heard it from several people now and it's amazing how
[00:37:51.19 - 00:37:57.16] Lencioni managed to get it spread out so widely, so quickly.
[00:37:57.16 - 00:38:00.05] Yeah, well, he’s a master at this.
[00:38:00.05 - 00:38:01.14] Yes, yeah.
[00:38:01.14 - 00:38:04.16] He’s one of the top people who do it. He’s awesome.
[00:38:04.16 - 00:38:10.04] And he's also extremely good at breaking down culture and what is important in culture.
[00:38:10.04 - 00:38:12.05] His framework of...
[00:38:12.08 - 00:38:18.17] explaining how results arrive from, if I remember correctly, from accountability
[00:38:18.17 - 00:38:29.14] and from commitment which comes from trust which comes from vulnerability, somehow in
[00:38:29.14 - 00:38:38.07] that sort of order, is like such a clear way of explaining why trust and
[00:38:38.07 - 00:38:41.10] vulnerability is the basis of...
[00:38:41.19 - 00:38:45.14] relationships of results of communication of the whole thing.
[00:38:45.22 - 00:38:50.07] Yeah, you asked me a question in the pre-show and that's, what aspects of your
[00:38:50.07 - 00:38:52.23] culture did you, you know, did you learn from somebody else?
[00:38:52.23 - 00:38:58.16] And the be a great teammate portion of the Own It mindset came directly from
[00:38:58.16 - 00:39:01.07] him and his ideal team player.
[00:39:01.07 - 00:39:05.23] And I reworked it to be able to fit into, into the StoneAge way of doing things,
[00:39:05.23 - 00:39:07.19] but it's brilliant.
[00:39:07.19 - 00:39:10.20] If you haven't read The Ideal Team Player it's so good.
[00:39:10.20 - 00:39:14.01] And it can, it's, it really, it really did help us.
[00:39:14.01 - 00:39:19.16] galvanize exactly what that meant for us and had people, gave people a path to see
[00:39:19.16 - 00:39:24.16] what success looked like and we could build training around it and all of these things.
[00:39:24.19 - 00:39:26.13] So, yeah, so I love him.
[00:39:26.13 - 00:39:31.04] I would love to meet him at some point, maybe have him on my podcast too, cause
[00:39:31.04 - 00:39:34.22] he's just, he's so brilliant and he can describe it in such a way that's easy to
[00:39:34.22 - 00:39:37.22] understand with his fables and yeah, it's good.
[00:39:38.19 - 00:39:45.16] And if we move to the new areas which you've started devoting your writing time
[00:39:45.16 - 00:39:47.13] to, which is purpose.
[00:39:49.11 - 00:39:55.17] Why is purpose important and how do you break down, like, what are the ingredients
[00:39:55.17 - 00:39:56.20] of purpose?
[00:39:57.19 - 00:39:59.14] So yeah, so I'm just starting.
[00:39:59.14 - 00:40:01.01] I'm just starting this new book.
[00:40:01.01 - 00:40:05.01] So I'm actually like building out my framework, my six step process.
[00:40:05.01 - 00:40:09.19] But, you know, where it really came from is that, you know, a lot of executives
[00:40:09.19 - 00:40:15.20] feel a lot... Executives typically would say they feel more purpose in their work and
[00:40:15.20 - 00:40:17.14] individual contributors don't.
[00:40:17.14 - 00:40:23.01] And this is not all, but in general, people who have more autonomy
[00:40:23.01 - 00:40:24.17] and decision-making authority,
[00:40:24.17 - 00:40:29.04] who have more experience, they find their work to be more purposeful.
[00:40:29.04 - 00:40:34.22] And when I was named CEO and I had, you know, done that journey, gone through that
[00:40:34.22 - 00:40:39.17] journey so quickly and coming from honestly not a very healthy place to where
[00:40:39.17 - 00:40:44.04] I was, I realized that a big part of it was because I loved what I did.
[00:40:44.04 - 00:40:47.19] I felt so much purpose in my work and so much meaning in my work.
[00:40:47.19 - 00:40:50.13] And I thought to myself,
[00:40:50.13 - 00:40:55.04] I want every person in my company to have the opportunity to feel this way about
[00:40:55.04 - 00:40:56.02] their work.
[00:40:56.02 - 00:40:59.16] How do we make every job feel meaningful?
[00:40:59.16 - 00:41:03.22] And how do we make sure that we are finding people whose talents and desires
[00:41:03.22 - 00:41:06.07] and goals align with that role?
[00:41:06.13 - 00:41:09.07] And so that's where all of this has come from.
[00:41:09.07 - 00:41:13.13] And I'm really lucky because I do have so much purpose and meaning in my work.
[00:41:13.13 - 00:41:16.01] And so I want to be able to tell these stories.
[00:41:16.01 - 00:41:22.13] And so I'm building out a six step process for understanding, for finding that
[00:41:22.13 - 00:41:28.01] purpose for those people who are like, I'm just not happy doing what I'm doing and
[00:41:28.01 - 00:41:29.19] really building that out.
[00:41:29.20 - 00:41:35.02] So I'm not gonna share my six steps right now because I'm still developing those
[00:41:35.02 - 00:41:41.08] right now, but here in about six months, I think that framework should be really
[00:41:41.08 - 00:41:42.16] built out.
[00:41:42.22 - 00:41:45.08] But it is about exploring.
[00:41:45.08 - 00:41:47.19] It's about understanding yourself, right?
[00:41:47.19 - 00:41:49.13] Your strengths, your weaknesses, what you want.
[00:41:49.13 - 00:41:51.13] It's about having that vision for yourself.
[00:41:51.13 - 00:41:53.10] It's about exploring different things.
[00:41:53.10 - 00:41:56.14] I tell people, don't be afraid to have crappy jobs, right?
[00:41:56.14 - 00:41:59.13] That's how we learn what we don't want.
[00:42:00.01 - 00:42:03.07] It's about mastery and getting good at something.
[00:42:03.08 - 00:42:06.19] We do find more purpose when we are really good at something.
[00:42:06.19 - 00:42:10.23] So that's how I'm starting to think through this framework.
[00:42:12.13 - 00:42:17.22] And as we wrap the podcast, I have a couple of questions I asked my guests.
[00:42:18.05 - 00:42:22.22] So firstly, what do you think we need to rethink about culture?
[00:42:22.22 - 00:42:29.11] In other words, what would you tell a leader who is not intentional about their
[00:42:29.11 - 00:42:35.10] culture and is pretty much on a culture by default path?
[00:42:35.14 - 00:42:38.16] Yeah, culture by default is a bad place to be.
[00:42:38.19 - 00:42:45.11] And so what I would tell, what I would tell a leader is that, you know, culture
[00:42:45.11 - 00:42:48.22] starts with you, but it's made up of the collective.
[00:42:48.22 - 00:42:54.08] And so you have to set the tone for it and be that role model.
[00:42:54.08 - 00:42:58.19] And then you have to inspire people to be their greatest.
[00:42:59.01 - 00:43:01.13] Don't be afraid to put your people first.
[00:43:01.13 - 00:43:04.11] Right, to have our vision be to create a thousand millionaires, right?
[00:43:04.11 - 00:43:09.04] That isn't about our customers, but we are never going to be that kind of company
[00:43:09.04 - 00:43:13.05] that builds that kind of wealth and that kind of value if we aren't doing a really
[00:43:13.05 - 00:43:15.11] good job of solving our customers' problems.
[00:43:15.11 - 00:43:20.01] And I think so many leaders are afraid to put their employees first.
[00:43:20.01 - 00:43:23.19] And you have to, you have to be intentional about it.
[00:43:23.19 - 00:43:25.13] You have to bring people along.
[00:43:25.13 - 00:43:28.17] You have to remember that the culture is made up of the collective
[00:43:28.19 - 00:43:31.23] and everybody either adds to it or takes away from it.
[00:43:31.23 - 00:43:35.07] And you are the person who is setting that tone.
[00:43:35.07 - 00:43:39.04] So don't tolerate people who are taking away from the culture.
[00:43:39.04 - 00:43:42.10] Do not let toxic people stay in your culture.
[00:43:42.13 - 00:43:45.13] Build people up and role model it yourself.
[00:43:45.13 - 00:43:47.01] You are that beacon.
[00:43:47.01 - 00:43:49.04] You should be the culture evangelist.
[00:43:49.04 - 00:43:53.02] If you aren't, then I think that you are really missing out on an opportunity to
[00:43:53.02 - 00:43:55.16] build a lasting, strong company.
[00:43:56.10 - 00:44:01.17] And if you were to go to an earlier version of yourself, let's say when you
[00:44:01.17 - 00:44:11.22] started as operations director at StoneAge, what would you tell the earlier Kerry?
[00:44:12.17 - 00:44:17.07] Uh, being cool, calm, and collected is such a much better way to lead.
[00:44:17.07 - 00:44:24.07] Um, I'm a very passionate person and, I move fast and I have very high
[00:44:24.07 - 00:44:29.20] expectations of people and I am very disruptive and that can, that can make
[00:44:29.20 - 00:44:37.01] people feel, um, you know, there's, it can come with a lot of pressure and
[00:44:37.01 - 00:44:42.14] so, I have, as I've matured as a leader, I have become
[00:44:42.14 - 00:44:46.13] you know, much more unflappable in my leadership style.
[00:44:46.13 - 00:44:50.07] And so I would go back and tell my younger self that like, just be cool,
[00:44:50.07 - 00:44:50.23] calm, and collected.
[00:44:50.23 - 00:44:52.14] Like just don't let stuff bother you.
[00:44:52.14 - 00:44:56.19] And you're going to be so much easier to give feedback to and, and talk to and all
[00:44:56.19 - 00:44:57.20] of these things.
[00:44:57.20 - 00:45:00.07] So, uh, that's what I would tell myself.
[00:45:00.07 - 00:45:06.08] And there's this word I learned recently which is equanimity, which is how to deal
[00:45:06.08 - 00:45:17.22] with the challenges life brings you with calmness and just serenity and patience.
[00:45:18.13 - 00:45:23.07] Freaking out never makes anything better, ever, ever.
[00:45:23.07 - 00:45:29.08] It might feel good to have that dopamine hit for a minute, but then there's the
[00:45:29.08 - 00:45:34.10] aftermath of how you make people feel and how they experience you.
[00:45:34.10 - 00:45:36.01] And I just heard this great, great quote.
[00:45:36.01 - 00:45:43.14] I was just in Miami for YPO's leadership, a global leadership conference, GLC, and
[00:45:43.14 - 00:45:51.22] this amazing YPOer gave a speech and she said, leadership is not how people
[00:45:51.22 - 00:45:57.08] experience you, it's how they experience themselves in the presence of you.
[00:45:57.10 - 00:45:59.05] And I can still get goosebumps.
[00:45:59.05 - 00:46:05.19] It was such a brilliant line and it's so true because people can experience you and
[00:46:05.19 - 00:46:09.10] they can be like, oh, that person's inspiring or that person's a jerk or
[00:46:09.10 - 00:46:11.07] confusing or whatever it is.
[00:46:11.07 - 00:46:16.10] But then it's not really about you, it's then about what do they go and do with that.
[00:46:16.17 - 00:46:26.14] And so I love that because I want people to experience themselves as capable and
[00:46:26.14 - 00:46:33.19] talented and believed in and that they can go do hard things.
[00:46:33.19 - 00:46:35.10] And that isn't about me, right?
[00:46:35.10 - 00:46:40.14] That's about how do I inspire them to feel that in themselves and to go after their dreams.
[00:46:40.14 - 00:46:43.02] And so anyway, I just thought it was a brilliant quote and I'm going to use it
[00:46:43.02 - 00:46:46.01] all the time, uh, because it's so true.
[00:46:46.01 - 00:46:50.10] And I think so many leaders do not think of it, leadership, like that.
[00:46:51.01 - 00:46:56.11] Is there something you would recommend us to walk away and check out like a book or
[00:46:56.11 - 00:47:01.19] a movie or something you read or were inspired by recently?
[00:47:01.23 - 00:47:04.10] Gosh, I am such an avid reader.
[00:47:04.10 - 00:47:05.14] I really do.
[00:47:05.14 - 00:47:09.20] I'm like totally sold on this six geniuses of work.
[00:47:09.20 - 00:47:13.10] So I highly recommend all leaders go out and read it.
[00:47:13.10 - 00:47:20.10] I saw myself in it and it just gave so much clarity.
[00:47:20.16 - 00:47:26.07] So and then, yeah, it's definitely a great framework to be able to start to think
[00:47:26.07 - 00:47:29.14] about how work gets done in your company and how you align people
[00:47:29.14 - 00:47:33.22] with what they're good at in the chain of how things get done.
[00:47:33.22 - 00:47:38.11] So I would highly recommend that book by Patrick Lencioni.
[00:47:39.04 - 00:47:40.22] I will check it out.
[00:47:40.22 - 00:47:41.19] Good.
[00:47:41.19 - 00:47:46.23] And before we close, Kerry, what was the truth or what were the truths and what was
[00:47:46.23 - 00:47:47.22] the lie?
[00:47:47.22 - 00:47:53.10] All right, so the truths were I survived an accidental overdose and that I debated
[00:47:53.10 - 00:47:57.07] between engineering and journalism school for college.
[00:47:57.07 - 00:48:00.17] And the lie was I tried out to be a professional softball player.
[00:48:00.17 - 00:48:04.16] I love softball, but I'm just, I'm not anywhere near that good.
[00:48:05.19 - 00:48:09.17] Yeah, and with the accidental overdose I can see the earlier struggles you went
[00:48:09.17 - 00:48:15.07] through and how that must have changed you as a person and made you stronger.
[00:48:15.19 - 00:48:19.19] It was the best thing that ever could have happened to me, even though it was horrible.
[00:48:19.19 - 00:48:23.04] It was at one of those inflection points in life.
[00:48:23.08 - 00:48:24.07] Indeed.
[00:48:24.19 - 00:48:29.07] And I think none of us wants these inflection points, like my inflection
[00:48:29.07 - 00:48:30.19] point was my divorce.
[00:48:31.11 - 00:48:39.07] But thanks to my divorce, and without being the one that caused it, I see it as a gift.
[00:48:39.13 - 00:48:44.04] Because now I'm living the second version of my life, which is a much more
[00:48:44.04 - 00:48:47.08] fulfilling life, much closer to my true self.
[00:48:47.13 - 00:48:51.07] And it's something I didn't want, something that was...
[00:48:51.22 - 00:48:57.08] given or gifted and I'm thankful that that it happened.
[00:48:57.16 - 00:49:01.17] Yeah, you know, when you can find gratitude in the hard things, that's where
[00:49:01.17 - 00:49:03.13] the secret sauce of life is, right?
[00:49:03.13 - 00:49:04.16] We all go through hardships.
[00:49:04.16 - 00:49:07.19] We all have to overcome roadblocks and adversity.
[00:49:07.19 - 00:49:09.01] I mean, that's what life is, right?
[00:49:09.01 - 00:49:11.01] We're here to be tested.
[00:49:11.01 - 00:49:15.01] But if you can find gratitude for the hard things that happened in life, then you can
[00:49:15.01 - 00:49:16.22] turn anything into a gift.
[00:49:17.07 - 00:49:18.05] Yeah.
[00:49:18.11 - 00:49:19.07] Indeed.
[00:49:19.07 - 00:49:26.05] Kerry, thank you for being here with us, for inspiring us to instill an ownership mindset.
[00:49:26.16 - 00:49:32.08] I think you talked about both the financial aspect of it, the ESOP, but also
[00:49:32.08 - 00:49:37.01] the emotional aspect of it, which is trust people and let them be their best selves
[00:49:37.01 - 00:49:38.07] at work.
[00:49:40.04 - 00:49:45.19] And I hope that inspires more leaders to think about their people, their staff,
[00:49:45.19 - 00:49:52.08] their employees as owners in the business and help those people help the business
[00:49:52.08 - 00:49:56.08] rather than see them as resources, which is the traditional view.
[00:49:57.01 - 00:50:03.05] And so thank you for being with us and thank you to all those who listened to us.
[00:50:03.05 - 00:50:04.19] If you like the show.
[00:50:04.19 - 00:50:08.10] You can support us by telling your friends about the show or you can leave a comment
[00:50:08.10 - 00:50:10.10] in your podcast application.
[00:50:10.10 - 00:50:15.16] I know there is a little field in Spotify that allows you to do that within the app.
[00:50:15.19 - 00:50:20.13] If you prefer to watch and not just listen, you can subscribe to the YouTube
[00:50:20.13 - 00:50:27.01] channel and you can see us in person rather than listen to us.
[00:50:27.01 - 00:50:32.01] And you can also reach out and tell us who we should be inviting to the show
[00:50:32.04 - 00:50:37.22] by emailing rethink{rethinkculture.co and do keep on creating happier
[00:50:37.22 - 00:50:43.01] workplaces, healthier workplaces for you and for those around you.